1:24th Scale Model Truck Forum
General Category => Links to other sites => Topic started by: Breninasia on April 10, 2014, 04:02:07 AM
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Heinz at Modelmakershop has got a 3D-printed and CNC-milled Canadian London mixer trailer for sale. Only 10 made so far ...
The price is ... eye-watering!
http://www.modelmakershop.com/modelmakershop/product_info.php?info=p4087_CANADIAN-CONCRETE-MIXER-TRAILER-COMPLETE-KIT-1-24.html&XTCsid=j93maqjs3t87rms1kome8800a7 (http://www.modelmakershop.com/modelmakershop/product_info.php?info=p4087_CANADIAN-CONCRETE-MIXER-TRAILER-COMPLETE-KIT-1-24.html&XTCsid=j93maqjs3t87rms1kome8800a7)
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it looks a very detailed kit. if he is supplying the end caps as 3d printed (which it looks like he is) then i am not surprised at the cost.
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Took photos of one of these at Jabekke in 2013, looked nice then, for me I think the price is fair, when you consider what is needed to produce this kit,ie time and the use of cnc and 3d printing, not everyone's choice of subject, but will appeal to some
Ron
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It certainly appealed to me, until I saw the price tag. :shocked:
I`m not suggesting that it isn`t worth that but as much as I love this hobby, I couldn`t ever see my way to shelling out that sort of money on a trailer - as nice as it may be.
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I first saw this two days ago on a Facebook model truck page, at the time it was listed on the MMS site at 250 euro... I just opened the page again and it's now gone up 50. Yeah it may be great, and may use 3D printing etc, but come on, 300 euro (plus shipping), that's just daylight robbery.
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Nice to see another mixer barrel on the market, I'm not sure about the trailer for UK market though ???
Would i buy?
Barrel....yes
Trailer....no
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Yeah it may be great, and may use 3D printing etc, but come on, 300 euro (plus shipping), that's just daylight robbery.
we had a similar conversation the other week over Howard's Trailer. at the end of the day we don't know how much work has gone into producing this kit let alone the cost of the products. i was the same as everyone else at one time and thought everything was a rip off. its only after producing a few kits i realise the time (more than anything) that goes into producing kits and parts. you have done some casting Ryan so you know making a simple mould can take at least a couple of hours, then casting the parts on top of that. look at all the cnc parts on the mixer kit, it must have taken ages to design them to not only look right but to fit together as well. something else to consider is the fact that its a specialist piece of kit and for that very reason probably will not sell very many. the final price of a kit is obviously worked out on a guesstimate of how many will be sold, the fewer kits sold the higher the price.
i try not to get involved in conversations like this for fear of coming across and sounding like Howard and Mick plus i don't want to stop members from giving their views. i have made an exception this time :admin: :grin:
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I've been reliably told (by the person who originally designed the kit) that it will be limited to 25 kits.
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Yeah it may be great, and may use 3D printing etc, but come on, 300 euro (plus shipping), that's just daylight robbery.
we had a similar conversation the other week over Howard's Trailer. at the end of the day we don't know how much work has gone into producing this kit let alone the cost of the products. i was the same as everyone else at one time and thought everything was a rip off. its only after producing a few kits i realise the time (more than anything) that goes into producing kits and parts. you have done some casting Ryan so you know making a simple mould can take at least a couple of hours, then casting the parts on top of that. look at all the cnc parts on the mixer kit, it must have taken ages to design them to not only look right but to fit together as well. something else to consider is the fact that its a specialist piece of kit and for that very reason probably will not sell very many. the final price of a kit is obviously worked out on a guesstimate of how many will be sold, the fewer kits sold the higher the price.
i try not to get involved in conversations like this for fear of coming across and sounding like Howard and Mick plus i don't want to stop members from giving their views. i have made an exception this time :admin: :grin:
After doing a few bits of resin casting and scratchbuilding a nooteboom windmill trailer I totally agree with you Steve. Nobody is going to spend 18 month + of there time and effort to release a kit and sell it for a daft 20 quid are they.
I know I won,t. Pity I can,t see the product as it,s no longer avalible but I,ve always pondered on building a US version of a Putzmister concreate pumper 10 axle. Maybee one day I will.
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I can see where Ryan is coming from here in Australia we are ripped of for every penny that anyone from another country can get out of us because as they say and not me "you live at the bottom of the world and so far away" Ryan has a right to say we get ripped off because when you do the convertion from 300Euro to the Australian Dollar $437.76 is a bit much but I'm not complaining at all because I wouldn't buy it anyway, not because of the expense but because I just don't need it. Anyone here in Australia who forks out that must money for a piece of plastic and some resin does need their head read or something this is why the hobby is getting beyond the relm of some after all it's just a hobby it's not bleedin' sheep farming and we not looking to buy a bloody cattle station in the far north all we want is a hobby that all can afford and enjoy and not have to pay out a million dollars to buy a kit worth $50. That's my two cents worth take it or leave it I don't really care my hobby suits me down to the ground just fine.
Dingo :cool:
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Dingo, the price is the same wherever you live, only the postage and any local Custom/tax payments would be different (and in the UK we get pretty hammered when importing anything, even from our "partners" in the EU so the kit producers are not "ripping you off" just because you live in Australia. As you say, it's a hobby and you seem to be quite happy with your freebie card models which is great but that doesn't mean everyone should be denied something different or something produced with the latest techniques just because it costs a bit more.
Some people buy expensive cars with the latest tech and gadgets fitted. They don't NEED them but they can afford them so why not? It keeps business going and it means eventually, these gadgets and tech will filter down to the cars that the rest of us can afford. Same in most fields. I believe it is the same people who have worked with Italeri to produce the Heavy Haul kit so who knows, Italeri may take notice of this mixer kit and produce a mass market one - ok I'm not holding my breath but you get the idea. Producing small run kits with 3d printed or resin cast parts, laser cut or milled bits and photo etch takes a LONG time, believe me so they have a right to charge for their time, otherwise it's not worth the trouble. If someone wants to pay that, good luck to them, if you don't that's fine too but please don't say they are ripping people off.....
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Andrew, Your post is spot-on and very clearly explained. :thumbsupup:
I wouldn`t dream of spending that kind of money on a single kit, not because I don`t like it or cannot afford it, but rather I see it as the equivalent of a year`s stock of styrene which will give me far more time and enjoyment than the purchase of single item, which in no way detracts from the desirability of the kit.
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but rather I see it as the equivalent of a year`s stock of styrene
I know this is on a massive tangent... but I found a guy on eBay who's selling A3 & even A2 size sheets of styrene (.5mm, .75mm, 1, 2 & 3mm thick) in packs of 1-10 sheets, for about a quarter the price of Evergreen. What would've cost me close to $200 in Evergreen just cost me $40 (3x sheets of .5mm, 3x .75mm & 3x 1mm A3 size). Even his 6kg packs of two part resin (Smooth on brand) cost me just over half what my 'usual supplier' would've charged.
Anyway, back to the topic... I have no idea what the average wage is in the rest of the world so I'm not going to try and compare, but I know that here in Australia a lot of people are only earning around $550 per week, when you then put the conversion rate for the cost of this model into perspective (as Andrew said, it converts to around $436), that is a hell of a lot of money.
Having said that, I fully appreciate how much time and effort goes into these sort of things, even the 'behind the scenes' style purchases (a CNC milling machine starts at around $1200, a decent quality 3D printer starts at around $1800 (plus materials), and the CAD software to run it all, anywhere from $400 for a cheap basic 2D package through to $2000 for professional grade 3D quality rendering software (recently been looking into it all for my D11R dozer project).
All I was meaning previously, was that hypothetically, if you build a kit such as this, and when you add up the hours of labour, materials used etc it comes to $10,000, wouldn't it be better to sell 200 of them for $62.50 each (this includes a 25% "profit" per item) rather than 50 of them for $250 each (once again, including a 25% "profit" per item).
You're getting the same profit margin both way's, but with one of them you're making them incredibly difficult for people to buy (or even justify buying, hence this type of discussion thread) where as with the other you're making the item & your company far more appealing to a much wider market, which will inevitably be far more beneficial to your company in the long run.
To put this into perspective, I am just beginning work on a 1/25 D11R, for some of the parts (drive sprockets, road wheels, idler wheels, track links etc) I plan to make one 'master' then reproduce the rest accordingly. If I was to make casts of the entire thing and make a resin 'kit' of it, I would require a very significant return, so far before I have even put a knife to the first piece or plastic, it's cost me $600. I anticipate by the time its finished for that to at least triple, and that's not including the value of an hours labour (let's say this is worth $25 per hour and it takes 500 hours of work to build it).
If I was to try and make resin or multimedia kits of this, then straight away I need to recoup losses of at least $1800 for parts/materials and as much as $12500 for time, If I sold 25 of them for $572 each, I still wouldn't make a single cent profit out of them.
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Well I hope you do get the Dozer out as a kit, I'm sure they would sell if they are as good as the Modelmakershop stuff! I suppose the eBay supplier of plastic sheets you found is in Australia so postage and tax to here wouldn't be too good....
The idea of selling 4 times as many kits for a quarter of the price each SOUNDS good but doesn't add up Ryan. Although you get economies of scale bringing the cost of each kit down when you have paid your fixed costs to set up, you still have materials for each kit (as you have found, resin, plastic, 3d printer material and photo etch stock are not cheap) and the time it takes to make those parts plus time for packaging them, making sure all the parts are in there plus time for posting etc. if you went by your $25 per hour and it takes even 4 hours to print, cast, etch, etc the parts, pack them up and post them off, that's another $100 per kit. Then you have the fact you have paid out for materials and taken the time to make 200 kits - what happens if you then only sell 100? You are left with stock that is costing you money whereas if you sell a shorter run at a higher price, you get your investment back quicker (and according to the website these are not available any more!). With items like these, you will usually get enough people who can afford them to buy and recoup your costs relatively quickly and after all, it is a business. Look at Howard's transkits. When he introduced them, I bet they flew off the shelves but as they become more generally available over a period of time, sales slow down as people think "I will buy one next time I have the money as they are always there" to the point he gets fed up holding the stock and having his money tied up and decides to stop making them. Suddenly, people buy them, knowing there won't be any more and you get those who missed out complaining they can't get them! Supply and demand at work and you know that later on some of those will appear on eBay with a hugely inflated price. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these mixers were not bought as investments.....
The other thing that Dingo mentioned and has before is the cost of things in Australia. As I said above, they cost the same the world over but postage costs, local taxes and the Aus dollar exchange rate are out of the hands of the seller, as is the average rate of pay in Australia and the cost of living! Plus it works the other way. There are some good stuff being produced in Australia but postage and customs charges makes them expensive over here - I bought a Bedford CA van from the Parts Box a few years ago and it worked out about £50 which for the quality and parts count wasn't great BUT I wanted the kit so I bit the bullet.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to buy lots of resin kits like Howard's Matador and all his transkits but my money has to pay for living too so I make a choice and save for those things I really want. I know I will never afford that '67 Mustang Fastback in Highland green so I will make do with my Beetle for now - but I won't deny those who can afford one from getting it, just because I can't.
Anyway, back to the D11 - when will they be available :thumbsupup:
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One of my hobbies might be free but I spend money o other that I have, for example it's no joy to go to a shop with your 4by and have to put new tyres on it then fork out $1,000, both my wife and I are astro-photographers well me more than she but to get what you need for that is not cheap but if you look at the same gear in the U.S. it's half the price. The other day i was talking to a guy from the States andhe was grumbling about the price of car kits over there at $20-$25 a kit so I took him to the LHS here and he almost collapsedwhen he saw a 1/25th Ford Mustang GT for $45aust he said man are you guys taken for a six. So you see one of my hobbies might be free the other including building muscle cars and rally car are not. If you think things are of a price comparative spend a year here or two ere you'll soon say different. Remember what Ryan said many people here in Australia get only $500 a week sometimes even less and they have to pay out for heaps just to live then try for their hobbies on top if they can do that. I know you going to say it's happening the world over but it's happening more here than anywhere else and we're (Ryan & myself) are the ones who have to put up with it.
Dingo :cool: